Greater Roman Britain

Re: Greater Roman Britain

feeds@yuku.com (Vordarian) — Sat, 10 May 2008 17:07:20 GMT

Problem is, the forces that tore the Roman Empire down are also strengthened. In the OTL 4th century, the Britanniae were a breeding ground for Usurpers, more than any other area, until at last Honorius had enough and kicked Britain out of the Empire in 410. I don't see this changing. The Pictish incursions of the 430s will be worse without the semi-civilised tribes of the North, as those tribes will have become just ordinary Romano-British. Britain was rich, but it simply couldn't...

Re: Greater Roman Britain

feeds@yuku.com (TomB1) — Sat, 10 May 2008 10:42:05 GMT

Touche. Of course you've seen Alternate History that posits some POD in the ancient world and then asks "Now how does this effect the Second World War?" My main point is that Britain was not an obscure backwater with a negligible impact on the rest of the Empire. Changes there could result in different Emperors down the road.

As for Hibernia I think the Romans would not try to occupy the entire island. I see their main presence in counties Waterford and Wexford...

Re: Greater Roman Britain

feeds@yuku.com (Abdul Hadi Pasha II) — Fri, 09 May 2008 20:42:29 GMT

While you make a lot of good points, I don't think you're addressing the impact of the POD, which posits additional military forces permanently assigned to Britain, and the subjugation of a lot of the forces that later helped to tear down Roman Britain. While being an island doesn't make Britain immune from invasion, it certainly helps, and I'm not sure you can say that it would ever fall. The Byzantines survived way worse threats (way, way, way worse threats) than Roman...

Re: Greater Roman Britain

feeds@yuku.com (Vordarian) — Thu, 08 May 2008 08:36:31 GMT

I don't think Romanitas in Britain would survive. On the contrary, Romanisation of Ireland and the Lowlands would only ensure that it falls quicker. Before I elaborate this, a quick aside. The Rhine is a cultural break today. French has spread eastward due to French conquests from the XVI century onward, but there were some Romanic pockets throughout the German-speaking areas west of the Rhine, for example along the Mosel. As for the Hadrian's wall and the 'natural' border of...

Re: Greater Roman Britain

feeds@yuku.com (miketr) — Thu, 08 May 2008 07:03:25 GMT

Re: Greater Roman Britain

feeds@yuku.com (borys68) — Wed, 07 May 2008 21:55:43 GMT
Ahoj!
The wild bogs of Albion were not very deeply Romanised. It is true that the most developed parts of Roman Britain - the south-east, were thoroughly Germanised, so any Latin speaking pockets there were destroyed. Anybody know anything about Latin use in Britain c.350-400?

Still, all three parts of Roman Britain not conquered by the Saxons and Angles were Celtic speaking. And the refugees to the continent also must had been partly/largely Celtic speaking as well.

...

Re: Greater Roman Britain

feeds@yuku.com (miketr) — Wed, 07 May 2008 18:27:06 GMT
200 years is short term Tom?

As to the good emperor of Britain and Northern Gaul, assuming he isn't butterflied away totally. One would assume his treasurer Allectus puts a knife in his back on que.

Michael

Re: Greater Roman Britain

feeds@yuku.com (TomB1) — Wed, 07 May 2008 12:44:31 GMT
You need to work out the short term consequences before you work out the long term consequences. Britain was not unimporant in Roman history. Let me give an example let us assume that because Turbo Brittania is stronger that OTL Carausius has more forces to play with and so defeats Constantius Chlorus. Wouldn't that cause immense changes in the TL?

Re: Greater Roman Britain

feeds@yuku.com (Abdul Hadi Pasha II) — Sat, 03 May 2008 11:56:52 GMT
I guess that depend on what happens for the next couple of centuries. How deeply does Roman civilization seep into the isles? When do they become Christian? Do they? Is there a polity extant when Barbarians invade that is strong enough to beat them back? I tend to think it unlikely that Germanic invasions can be completely kept out, but maybe they could be prevented from becoming overwhelming, and like the Norman invasions of France, able to assimilate newcomers. That could leave you with a...

Greater Roman Britain

feeds@yuku.com (miketr) — Fri, 02 May 2008 05:30:22 GMT

Some time ago on another list the idea of a stronger Roman Britain was traded about. Since then I have from time to time thought about the idea again. Below is the result.